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(Post Count Ranks)
(Post Count Ranks)
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Unlike your Peregrinus rank, this one is entirely meaningless and conveys nothing. It's merely associated with your Post Count. The more posts you have, the higher this rank. It's actually your custom user title, and only Citizens, Local Moderators or TWC Staff have the ability to override their title with one of their own design.
Unlike your Peregrinus rank, this one is entirely meaningless and conveys nothing. It's merely associated with your Post Count. The more posts you have, the higher this rank. It's actually your custom user title, and only Citizens, Local Moderators or TWC Staff have the ability to override their title with one of their own design.
Here's the list of those ranks.
Here's the list of those ranks, with English translations in parantheses.
* Hōi ramu 0  
* Hōi ramu (siege ram) 0  
* Ikko-Ikki 1  
* Ikko-Ikki (rebel peasant) 1  
* Kabe difendā 30  
* Kabe difendā (wall defender) 30  
* Sukauto 50  
* Sukauto (scout) 50  
* Ashigaru 75
* Ashigaru (militia) 75
* Yari-hei 100  
* Yari-hei (spearman) 100  
* Shashu 150  
* Shashu (archer) 150  
* Kirā 225  
* Kirā (killer) 225  
* Kajiwara  275
* Supai (spy) 300
* Supai 300  
* Shisai (priest) 350
* Shisai 350
* Taihō no heishi (soldier of artillery) 450  
* Taihō no heishi 450  
* Ishiyumi no shashu (crossbowman) 600  
* Ishiyumi no shashu 600  
* Sōkō yumi (armored archer) 750  
* Sōkō yumi 750  
* Kihei (cavalryman) 900  
* Kihei 900  
* Sōkō no yari (armored spearman) 1100  
* Sōkō no yari 1100  
* Senshi (warrior) 1400  
* Senshi 1400  
* Kei kihei (light cavalryman) 1700  
* Kei kihei 1700  
* Shuho 1800
* Shusaku 1900
* Chugen 2000  
* Chugen 2000  
* Banzai jūden-ki 2400
* Banzai jūden-ki (banzai charger) 2400
* Baitai kihei 2800
* Baitai kihei (medium cavalryman) 2800
* Jukutatsu shita 3500  
* Jukutatsu shita (adept) 3500  
* Ronin 4500  
* Ronin (masterless samurai) 4500  
* Kamikaze 5500  
* Kamikaze (divine wind) 5500  
* Sohei 6750
* Sohei (warrior monk) 6750
* Jū kihei 7500
* Jū kihei (heavy cavalryman) 7500
* Ninja 9000
* Ninja 9000
* Samurai 10000  
* Samurai 10000  
* Roiyarugādo 12000  
* Roiyarugādo (royal guard) 12000  
* Taishi 14500  
* Taishi (ambassador) 14500  
* Hime 16000  
* Hime (princess) 16000  
* Ōji 18000  
* Ōji (prince) 18000  
* Sōzoku-jin 20000  
* Sōzoku-jin (heir) 20000  
* Gashira 23000  
* Gashira 23000  
* Daimyo 26000  
* Daimyo 26000  
* Jōgi 30000  
* Jōgi (ruler) 30000  
* Shogun 35000  
* Shogun 35000
* Kotei 45000
* Kotei (emperor) 45000

Revision as of 15:18, 30 June 2011

This guide is intended to provide pretty much all the basic information you need to understand this forum, and answer all the questions that get repeatedly posted.

Guide to vBulletin

Here you can find an FAQ for vBulletin, who provide our forum software. Questions on how to use the forum itself, can be found here

TWC's BB Code

Ever wondered how to make your text go bold or italic or all the many many other things you can do with text?
Here's the complete list of all the BB tags we use here.

TWC Terms of Service and Forum Rules

Every member when they sign up is expected to keep to these rules. They're enforced by the moderators, and failure to comply will result in warnings suspensions, and ultimately, a permanent ban. We recommend you read and familiarise yourself with them! Terms of Service

Rules for Editing on the TWC Wiki

When editing on the wiki, members are expected to follow the rules set down by the Wiki Staff. Failure to comply with these can result in a ban on the Wiki for a certain period of time. We recommend you use these rules when editing this Wiki and to be familiar with them. Rules on Editing the TWC Wiki

The Administrative Forums

These forums are located at the bottom of the main page and provide a place for members to come and sort out and any problems or issues.

Infraction Appeals and Discussion

The Praetorium

If you think you have been unfairly moderated; i.e. received a caution, warning, or suspension you don't think is justified, you can post a thread in this forum and talk privately to the Administrators about the issue. Sometimes though, you may wish to try discussing the issue with the individual moderator involved by private message before trying this route, you can still post a thread in the Praetorium later if the matter cannot be resolved via private message. The Praetorium forum.

The Tribunal

If you've received a caution, warning, or suspension you don't think is justified, and have already talked to an Administrator and / or used the Praetorium, and are not satisfied with the result, or if you wish to make your first appeal public instead of talking to the moderators in private, this is the forum in which to place your appeal. You may air your grievance and three appointed Judges (independent of the moderating staff) will review your case. Suspended members have the ability to post in this forum and this forum alone. The Tribunal forum.

Questions and Suggestions

If you have a question that has not been answered by this handy little guide, or you have any suggestion or comment you'd like to make that you think might make TWC that little bit better, then here is the place to post. All thoughts and comments welcome! All technical questions should also be directed here, unless it is a suggestion which can be debated on with solid information. Questions and Suggestions forum.

Technical Bazaar

The Technical Bazaar, whilst not really the place for questions, is another place to go to seek answers about things that are going wrong with the forums. You should also frequently visit here as there may be important information in regards to the maintainability of the site, and information on disruptions to the service. The Technical Bazaar

Signatures, Avatars, and Profile Pictures

To discourage joining/posting simply to spam signature links all signatures are currently disabled for new users. Once you have 25 posts and have been a member for a week you will be able to create a signature.

Signatures are bound to a 550×175 pixel box automatically, with anything outside of that being cut off. The maximum file size of all signature images may not exceed 250 KB according to the current TOS.

Custom avatars and user pictures must be uploaded to TWC from your User Control Panel. You will be told the maximum size of each when you try to upload them. At the time of this writing, the maximum sizes are 100×100 pixels or 80 KB (whichever is smaller) for avatars, and 640×480 pixels or 250 KB (whichever is smaller) for profile pictures.

Some Frequently Asked Questions

Here are the answers to some miscellaneous questions we've been regularly asked not covered elsewhere in this guide.

How do I make polls?
To vote in polls you have to have 25 posts and been registered for at least one week. You can only make a poll if you are starting a new topic. What you need to click to add a poll to your post is the 'Yes, post a poll...' box near the bottom of the screen. If you need to add a poll later then you need to PM an Administrator.
What's the "Report" button?
This red button at the bottom right of each post will generate an automatic email to all the moderators of that forum telling that that post has been reported. You can use it to tell the moderators every time you see a post that breaks the Terms of Service. While it is not our aim to create a generation of informants, experience has proven time and again that reporting a post that you consider offensive or disruptive is far better then attempting to deal with it "on your own", by either attacking the poster or threatening with some form of action in the thread. Furthermore, a report is the fastest way to alert the moderators about serious breaches of ToS as posting of porn and also to get yourself rid of ad-bots. Reporting posts is encouraged!
I've just taken a glance at the Political Mudpit and the Ethos, Mores, et Monastica sections of the Common Community, and I want to post there! But I do not want to get completely butchered by the experienced members who already post in those sections. How can I, a complete newb, post in those sections without getting hacked into little pieces?
I can offer four pieces of advice for this: read, edit, give sources, and stay calm.
  1. Read - What you first need to do is read the entire thread. This is important as it can give you sources for information (which are very important for a debate) and tells you what has already been argued about. Unless you are bringing new information regarding a past issue or point, it is redundant to dredge up an old settled argument, especially if it has been some time since it was last talked about in the thread.
  2. Edit - After you have written your response, always send it through a spellchecker after reading it over again yourself. It is imperative to ensure that there are as few as possible spelling and grammatical errors in your post.
  3. Give Sources - A credible source can go a long way in helping you win a debate. Facts without sources will be often disregarded as mere opinion.
  4. Stay Calm - Far too often, members become frustrated and angry on various threads. This happens to all at times, and the best cure is to step away from the debate. What you do after that is up to you, but do not go back to the debate until you have calmed down. If a debate looks like it is getting too heated, a moderator will often close down a thread temporarily to clean up heated posts, as well as giving both parties a chance to calm down.
How would I defend myself against flamers and trolls?
Hopefully you won't have to! But if someone does flame you or troll you, report their post using the Report button. DON'T respond in kind. If you flame someone who flames you, that just starts a flame war and you'll find yourself in as much trouble as the original flamer.
What if I want to express my opinion about certain members and I want to contact them individually?
Try emailing them if they enabled their email address, or use the "private messaging" - PM. Be careful though, members do (and should) report harassing or annoying PMs to moderators. Just because it is a private message, it does not give you leeway to flame or troll others.
Can I vote in polls?
To vote in polls you have to have 25 posts and been registered for at least one week. This was introduced to prevent people creating duplicate accounts and spamming our site awards with them.
Why can't I post any visitor messages?
To post visitor messages, you have to have 25 posts and been registered for at least one week. This was introduced to prevent people creating duplicate accounts and spamming our site with them.
How do I change my name?
Post in the Name change requests thread in the Questions & Suggestions forum.
How do I make a Social Group?
  1. Firstly, click on the 'My Account' button on the top left hand side of your screen (if you can't see it then scroll to the top of the forums).
  2. Under the left header 'Networking' you should see a link called 'Social Groups'. Click on it.
  3. On the bottom of the page you should see a link saying 'Create A New Group'. Click on it.
If you are having trouble finding the links, use your browsers search function (most likely by pressing Ctrl + F). Also remember to search the already made Social Groups to see if there is already one for your topic.

The Constitution and the Curia

If you've got this far, you've probably realised TWC isn't like any other major forum you've been a part of. The Constitution is a big reason why. About 4 years ago when TWC was small and cosy, the 3 administrators of the time felt that it would be good to reward their core body of active members. The reward they gave this core group was the ability to have a say on how the site is run. The Constitution is the document that sets out how it all works.

Citizenship is awarded to members who make noteworthy contributions to the forum. These can include, but are not limited to:

  • Creating After Action Reports (AARs) on battles fought in the various Total War games.
  • Creating a mod, or working as part of a mod team for the Total War games.
  • Serving as a member of the TWC staff (Content Writer, Librarian, Graphic Artist (Badger/Rep Icon Maker) etc.)
  • Showing your dedication to the site by making consistent intelligent posts around the forum.

Additionally, there are two types of Citizen. A Civitate is a Citizen whose primary contribution has been in debates and discussions. An Artifex is a Citizen whose primary contribution has been modding work. All the moderators on the site are drawn from the citizen class as well. To find out how to become a citizen, read on below!

The Curia has a number of institutions which help to oversee the citizen class, or run the site. One of them, the Tribunal, has already been mentioned above. The three Tribunal judges are all elected by the Curia.

The Consilium de Civitate

This is a body of 12 elected Citizens who govern promotions and demotions. They vote on whether a member should be promoted from Peregrinus to Citizen, as well as performing other responsibilities listed in the Constitution. If a Citizen has broken the rules, they may also vote to suspend or strip him of his rank. The CdeC maintain a thread in the Curia giving updates on who the current members are and what they've been doing. You can view their current thread here.

Past CdeC reports thread.

And here are current CdeC members.

An in-depth guide to the Curia may be found here.

The Curial Officers

The Curator
The Curator deals with the day to day running of the Curia. He moves debates to vote, orders the archives, maintains order in the Curia, and also makes rulings on the interpretation of the constitution where necessary. The Curator also holds power of Veto over any Curial decision. The Curator can make grammatical and spelling changes to the constitution without consultation with the Citizenry. He holds his term for 3 months.
The current Curator is Empress Meg and her assistant is Pøntifex

The Curial Committees

A Curial Committee can be convened by the Council to discuss or investigate a particular issue. In addition to this Citizens can also propose a 'project' to be undertaken by the site, and then members of the forum may join the committee in the Forum Magnum.They are designed to bring members of the staff or the members and the Curia together to work on a particular project. The only active 'committee' is the Napoleon TW Survey.

How to become a Citizen

So, after reading all that, has it caught your interest? Do you want to get involved in running this site? Do you want to have your say on how we do things here? Then here's how.

To become a citizen of TWC you first have to meet the qualifications. These are set pretty low and it's not a case of everyone who meets these gets the rank automatically. To qualify for Citizen, a member must have at least fifty posts, been a registered member for one month, and have no warnings within the last six months. Non-point infractions or 'notes' are not factored into this.

Above and beyond these basic standards, the rank is then awarded for contributions. So if you think you make a valuable contribution to the site, chances are you're citizen material.

To get promoted you have to be patronised by an existing citizen. There are two ways this can happen. The most common is for a citizen to notice your contributions and send you a PM asking if you'd like the rank. If however, you think you are worthy, you don't have to wait to be noticed! You can PM a citizen directly and ask if they will sponsor you. Only those citizens who have themselves held their rank for 3 months can patronise.

If you get asked, or a citizen agrees to patronise you, you then have to write a short paragraph explaining why you want to be a citizen and why you think you are worthy. Keep in mind that the better you present your case to the CdeC, the more likely you will be considered citizen material. Include links to your most worthy contributions, be they modifications tools or work, or well-composed debates. PM the paragraph to your patron; they'll add their own comments and PM both to a member of the Consilium de Civitate. The CdeC will then take a week to discuss and vote on you. If you get 60% of the non abstaining votes, you'll receive a PM from the Curator congratulating you, and have your rank, a shiny new badge, and all the privileges of being recognised as one of TWC's outstanding members!

If, for whatever reason, you should fail the vote you must wait 1 month before you can apply again

More info can be found on the TWC forums, with a quick and simple walkthrough.

Meet the Staff

Got a desire to know who the mighty and powerful are who work overtly and covertly to make TWC a better place? Then you found your answers right here!

Additionally, a list of all those people with moderator status can be found on the Forum Leaders page

Officer Ranks

There are 3 ranks of staff officer

  • Council Officer
  • Senior Staff Officer
  • Staff Officer

The Council Officers are the administrators who form the Council and run the show; the rest of the staff are divided into the 3 branches to serve the site. all staff may be recognized by their badges and oftentimes colour-coded usernames. All Officers display their officer rank in preference to their member rank, so there's no disguising them!

The Hexagonal Council

This is the governing body that runs the site. Its made up of four permanent members and a variable number of non-permanent members who contribute their specific talents to making TWC the best it can be.

Hex Officers names appear Bold and Bright Red on the forum display and have the following badge Administrator radadir.png

The up-to-date list can be found here roles are typically;

Permanent Officers
Non Permanent Officers

The Moderation Branch

These are the people in staff responsible for enforcing the rules and terms of service across the forum.

Staff Moderators
TWC's front line policemen, ready to enforce rules with edit button and ban stick! Shown with their names in blue and bold and the moderator badge, these are the people responsible for the day to day enforcement of TWC's rules.
You can find an up to date list of Moderators here.

The Content Branch

Articles, Competitions, Podcasts, yes indeed this is the content branch; responsible for all the community projects that go on here and always looking to expand. With so much to see and do the content branch is by far the biggest branch of TWC staff.

The permanent members of the various content projects have their names in blue and wear one of the badges shown below. Some publications have temporary members, or free lance reporters, who aren't considered part of the content staff.

Chief of Content
Senior Content Officer
Each Senior Content Officer, usually an Director but not always, has a specific publication or project that they manage. Editors have direct control over their publication's staff and are tasked with the smooth and effective running of their publications. They may also from time to time support the Content Manager in ongoing projects such as this very FAQ.
The Senior Content Staff use the following badge
Content director.png
Content Staffers
The content staffers are the writers and other contributors to the various projects that go on here on TWC. They use this badge
Content writer radadir2.png
TWC Wiki Director
The current Wiki Director can be viewed here. The current Director is Ishan


The Helios


You can read the Helios and see the current team in their forum, further details also available on the Helios wiki page.

The Eagle Standard

ES Newbanner.jpg

You can read the current Eagle Standard and see the current team in their forum, further details also available on the Eagle Standard wiki page.

The Critic's Quill

Cqlogo large.png

You can read the current Critic's Quill and see the current team in their forum, further details also available on the Critic's Quill wiki page.

The Silver Shield

SilverShield Logo.png

You can read the Silver Shield and see the current team in their forum.

TWC Podcast


You can download old and new TWC Podcasts from their forum.

The Scriptorium

This is where all of TWCenter's best, and most informative posts go, if you want to learn about history, or check modding guides then this is the place to go

Head Librarian: - Legio

You can view the Library here.

All current Content Directors are listed here.

The Technical Branch

The most mysterious and smallest of the three branches of staff, the techies are the ones who by sheer skill and dint of hard effort amazingly keep this place together and just about functional.

The Technicians may have their names in blue like the content staff, and can wear the Tech Staff badge shown below. Each Technician has his own specialised access answering direct to the Chief Technician.

Technical staff radadir.png

Chief Technician
  • Augustus Lucifer
  • GrnEyedDvl
  • Jones King
  • Mimirswell
  • pannonian

Member Ranks

While not everyone has a fancy officer's title, everyone on TWC has a rank. Officers, be they Staff or Curial, are the people who carry out various jobs, but each of them, along with everyone else will hold a rank as well. The higher your rank, the more privileges and access you have and the greater your opportunities for promotion to an officer position. There are two broad types of ranks, Honorary and Normal. The three Normal ranks carry all the benefits of a Citizen; the four Honorary ones are used as rewards for specific services rendered or for achievement.

Normal Ranks

The three Normal Ranks are as follows:

This is the basic rank that everyone starts out on and many thousands of our members never achieve greater than this. Peregrinus grants posting rights in almost all of the forum and they have the opportunity to hold content and technical staff positions.
Local Forum Moderator
A Local Forum Moderator (or Local Moderator, Local Mod, or simply LM) is a normal member with Moderating powers inside a specific forum. They are usually devoted to this forum and its community. They are not counted as TWC staff.
They may do all normal moderating procedures within that forum, though may not infract (that is ban or suspend) users. Should a certain member break the ToS within that forum they should be reported as done all rule breakers.
A Local Mod is identified with a grey coloured name rather than the user black coloured name, and they may change their user-title. The Local Moderator title is inherited via Admin. Should you wish to become a Local Moderator of a certain forum you should get in contact with the chief forum moderator of that forum.
Citizen radadir.png
This special rank is given as a reward by the CdeC to those members who make a significant contribution to the Forum. It carries all the benefits of Peregrinus but additionally it grants members posting ability in Symposium and the Curia, as well as voting rights. Citizens are therefore given the opportunity to have a say in how their site is run. After 3 months in the rank, Citizens can also begin patronising new citizens. Only Citizens and above can become a member of the moderating staff. Additionally, most Curial Offices have the requirement of Citizen rank.
Citizens can choose to further define as one of two types depending upon which part of the site they most associate with.
The Civitates are those who earned their rank through hard intelligent posting and thoughtful debate
Civitate radadir.png
An Artifex is someone who earned their rank through modding
Artifex radadir.png

The Awarding of Normal Ranks is the job of the CdeC who may, if they feel it necessary, strip members of them. Requirements for the ranks are governed by the Curia.

Multiple Ranks

It's possible for a member to hold multiple ranks or Officer Positions, and as such they will usually, but not always follow this precedent in choosing which rank to display. Administrators, Senior Content Staff and Moderators will normally always display that rank over all others for quick identification.

Other Titles

Ranks which are not awarded by the Curia.

A god in Colchester

A God in Colchester Empire.png

The current and only holder of this title is imb39. The story of this and the reason why he has chosen this title is from the famous novel "I, Claudias" (I, CLAVDIVS). Claudius became emperor because he was regarded as so weak and ineffectual by competing factions and as other parts of his family killed themselves. imb39 sees that he reached the top because he was viewed as harmless. He referred to himself as Claudius at times - though he doesn't claim to have any of his abilities!

One of the lines in the book is "a god in Colchester" so, Garbarsardar and a few other Administators gave him this title. Though technically, it should not exist or be allowed as it has not been passed by the Curia, though nobody has yet objected against him/it.

For more information on Curial ranks and awards please see here or here.

Post Count Ranks

On the left hand side of each of your posts you'll note a number of things. First, your avatar, which you can set and change from your account control panel. Second, your Reputation, explained below. Third, your online status and add rep buttons. Fourth, your post count, and finally another rank.

Unlike your Peregrinus rank, this one is entirely meaningless and conveys nothing. It's merely associated with your Post Count. The more posts you have, the higher this rank. It's actually your custom user title, and only Citizens, Local Moderators or TWC Staff have the ability to override their title with one of their own design.

Here's the list of those ranks, with English translations in parantheses.

  • Hōi ramu (siege ram) 0
  • Ikko-Ikki (rebel peasant) 1
  • Kabe difendā (wall defender) 30
  • Sukauto (scout) 50
  • Ashigaru (militia) 75
  • Yari-hei (spearman) 100
  • Shashu (archer) 150
  • Kirā (killer) 225
  • Supai (spy) 300
  • Shisai (priest) 350
  • Taihō no heishi (soldier of artillery) 450
  • Ishiyumi no shashu (crossbowman) 600
  • Sōkō yumi (armored archer) 750
  • Kihei (cavalryman) 900
  • Sōkō no yari (armored spearman) 1100
  • Senshi (warrior) 1400
  • Kei kihei (light cavalryman) 1700
  • Chugen 2000
  • Banzai jūden-ki (banzai charger) 2400
  • Baitai kihei (medium cavalryman) 2800
  • Jukutatsu shita (adept) 3500
  • Ronin (masterless samurai) 4500
  • Kamikaze (divine wind) 5500
  • Sohei (warrior monk) 6750
  • Jū kihei (heavy cavalryman) 7500
  • Ninja 9000
  • Samurai 10000
  • Roiyarugādo (royal guard) 12000
  • Taishi (ambassador) 14500
  • Hime (princess) 16000
  • Ōji (prince) 18000
  • Sōzoku-jin (heir) 20000
  • Gashira 23000
  • Daimyo 26000
  • Jōgi (ruler) 30000
  • Shogun 35000
  • Kotei (emperor) 45000


The reputation feature is a fun little thing that enables you to see your community standing with the other members. In theory, the more reputation you have, the more highly thought of you are by the other members of the community. It has no other real meaning, and many members choose to disable it.

Reputation here will be described as if you were using the default Empire skin. The symbols are different on the Rome skin, or the Barbie skin.

If you are using the Rome skin, the add rep button is an eagle standard, a Ring is a helmet, and a crown is a legionary standard. The principle is the same however

If, (for whatever unknown reason!) you are using the Barbie skin, the add rep button is the eagle standard again, a ring becomes a type of spangly star, or maybe a flower and a crown is a diamond ring.

Moving swiftly back to the default Empire Skin then...

How do I give rep?
You can add reputation to a post by clicking this button, on the left
You can only add 1 point of rep to each post and you can only give 7 points total a day.
Additionally, you have to rep different users before you can give rep to the same user again, in order to prevent rep abuse.
Who can give rep?
Because of issues with account cloning in the past, where people created accounts just to give themselves rep, only users registered for at least two weeks with over 50 posts may give rep that counts. Users with less than 50 posts or who have been registered for less than two weeks will give a 0 rep point instead of 1, so any comments they leave will show up in your account, but you won't actually get a point for it. Please note, when a user jumps over the 50-post mark, rep they have given prior to that does not count retroactively. Furthermore, it may take an hour or so after your 50th post for your rep to start working, even if you've been registered for over two weeks by that point.
Where does reputation show?
Your reputation shows up in two places. One, on the left hand side where you post, a collection of symbols shows a rough guide to how much rep you have. Two, in your control panel. There's a more comprehensive display of the last 20 rep points you received, showing which post you got it for, who gave it, and any comment they left.
Can I disable reputation?
Yes, you can disable your reputation in your control panel. If you do so, your own rep won't show up but you'll still be able to give other people rep as well as receive it yourself.
What does it look like?
Each symbol represents a certain number of rep points. It starts at five, so if you have less than 3 rep points, you'll show the scales symbol for neutral rep.
reputation_balance.gif - Neutral Rep
Some very few members who have received neg rep from the staff will have this replaced by a red square. Those users who have disabled the reputation feature will simply show a grey square.
Once you hit 3 rep points, you'll get 1 gold ring
Each ring = 3 points, so if someone has 5 rings, they have 15 Rep points. You can only get a maximum of 5 rings, after that the rings are transferred into a fleur-de-lis.
Each gold fleur-de-lis is worth 15 rep points.
Each red fleur-de-lis is worth 150 rep points.
  • Scales: 0-2 Rep
  • 1 Ring: 2-3 Rep
  • 1 gold fleur-de-lis: 15 Rep
  • 1 red fleur-de-lis: 150 Rep
  • and so on